Theresa:  All right everyone. This is Theresa. I have muted everyone who's not a speaker, so hopefully this will work, so we get a clear line out to everyone. I'm Theresa Stern, and I'm the Vice President of Outreach, Admissions, and Alumni Services. I’m super happy to have this great Speaker Series to offer to you today. I want to thank our Alumni Association Board Member, Amit Ahuja for putting together the program today. I very much appreciate his organizational skills and for bringing our illustrious guests together. 

We're going to spend a little time getting to know these folks and then hearing about their adventures and activities. Then we'll have some time to answer questions. So I will unmute the line when it's time to open it up to questions. 

We have three adventurous speakers today that we're going to hear from. We've Jason Mitschele from Toronto, Canada. Jason is a lawyer, so we forgive him for that. But he's a mountain climber, amazing mountain climber. He's going to talk about some of his climbing and other activities. He's set to climb Mount Kilimanjaro. 

Our next speaker will be Jack Heim, and he is also an Alumni Association Board Member, as is Jason. And Jack is a rock climbing extraordinaire, and he also works at the University in Madison, and he is also does running and some other activities I think he's going to share with us. 

Jack:  Hello, everybody.

Theresa: Then our third speaker is Janice. So we have the J's today, Jason, Jack, and Janice. Janice is our third speaker. She comes to us from Lodi, California. She is an amazing archer and has won many medals in the sport. She'll a little bit about that and how we might be able to get involved. I would be interested in that. I'm not so interested in climbing rocks, but a bow, that I might be able to -- that wouldn’t scare me as much [laughs]. But anyway, she actually is on the board at the Society for the Blind and Discovery Blind Sports and is an assistive tech person. 

All three of these fabulous J's are also Guide Dogs for the Blind graduates. So they'll talk to us a little bit about how they accommodate their guide dog life and their sporting life. Why don't we go ahead, Jason, and start with you?

Jason:  Okay. Thanks, Theresa. Hi, everybody. I think we have about 10 minutes, so Theresa, if you want to give me a two minute warning or something in case I'm not already finished? Can you keep time, sort of like the Gong Show?

Theresa:  I can do that. I'll send in the hook.

Jason:  Yes. Get the hook out and get me out of here. I'm Jason, and I live in Toronto with my guide dog Kailua who's a lovely black lab. We live in the city. I think the key is we try and stay active. So generally, I try to work out three to four time a week, and I try to do things like run. I have a tandem bike. I try and, at least when the weather's cooperating, do that when I can. Somethings I can do with my dog; somethings I can't. 

My current goal -- and I've done things like done mini triathlons, and I've done long-distance bike rides, and I've taken my dog running. I've gone to climbing gyms, and I hear that Jack will talk more about that. My current goal that I'm focusing on right now is some friends and I are planning on climbing up Mount Kilimanjaro. We're currently planning on leaving August 30th of next year, 2020, for a September 1st eight-day climb. I could not think of a way to actually bring my dog on the climb, so I think Kailua's going to have that week off.

I'm training for that, and I have various things that I do. Somethings I can do with my dog, and sometimes I can't. For example, one thing I'm doing a lot of is hiking because when you climb mount Kilimanjaro, it's not a climb in the sense of you're using equipment and harnesses and ropes like that. It's a hike. What you do is you zig zag up the mountain. So although the altitude's very high and it's quite grueling and the weather can get quite challenging, you're basically on a big, long hike at a very high altitude and a very steep level. You're basically camping for a week. But it is kind of that. 

So one thing I can do with my dog is I have -- one of my trainers gave me a weighted backpack. You have 50 pound weights in the backpack, and you carry that, and you just walk up and down hills and hike around. It sort of simulates or gets you in shape for the endurance to do the climb. You're not going to have to run. You're not going to have to do speedy things, but you are going to have to have a lot of endurance. So that's one thing that I do with my dog. I can just go -- I have a lot of places around my building where I can go to walk. There's some trails, etc., that are fairly easy to navigate. But getting on that backpack and walking around is one of the things that I can do where my dog does help me to train.

And just generally, I am also will training to do some sprint triathlons, and part of that is swimming. My dog does swim, and I do swim with her for fun, but not necessarily laps, but she has to get me to the pool. So even having a guide dog just to get to and from places that you're doing the training is also very important. One of the pools that I go to is in a part of town that's not terribly accessible. You've got to take a streetcar to get there, and there's a bit of a walk, and having a guide dog just to get oneself there and back is quite invaluable. 

I have not yet found a way I can bring my dog on the tandem bike. I thought I'd look at maybe getting a little cart, a little passenger kind of thing that goes on the side, but I haven't quite gotten to that yet. So some things, like tandem biking, indoor rock climbing, other than getting you there and back, it's hard to get your dog directly involved, but certainly they're how you get there, and they're how you get home again. So they're really is what make it happen for you. 

So basically, that's what I do. In terms of the training, I do a lot of endurance work. I do a lot of treadmill. I do the hiking with my dog with the weighted backpack. I haven't quite figured out what I'm going to do for altitude training. That might be really some longer hikes up in the mountains, but don't have much here in Ontario, so I haven't quite that one figured out yet, but we'll try some things.

I think that having a guide dog just in general makes one, in my view, much more active. When I was a cane user, I was much less likely to go out to just go for a walk or go for a hike on my own. It just wasn't as fun for me. When you have a guide dog, of course, new worlds open up. Not only am I not afraid to do it, I'm actually excited to get out there and walk around and find new places. 

I do have some organizations to recommend to you. I run with Achilles International which is all over North America. It's in Canada; it's all over the states. They're based in New York. I do some running with them, and I'm doing some triathlon training with them as well. So what they do is the provide basically guides, running guides. Some people run with their dogs; some people don't. I guess it depends on I guess how well trained their dog is to run with them and how long the distance is and whatnot. But usually Achilles if you don't run with your dog, they'll have a volunteer dog holder so that when you're doing the run, you're don't have to worry about leaving your dog because someone will hold on to your dog until you get back. So they're very accommodating in that way.

I've also done some work recently, for folks that might be in Canada, the Canadian Adaptive Planning Association, and they do adaptive rock climbing. I've only done indoor stuff with them, but I assume they might do outdoor stuff too. For those who are in Ontario, I'm also part of the tandem bike club called Trail Blazers that own a series of tandem bikes, and they provide what's called the stoker, the person that goes on the back, generally, the blind person, hopefully with a captain who goes in the front, generally a sighted person. So that group actually pairs up stokers with captains. 

I've also dabbled a bit in golf. Again, if you're not using a golf cart, your guide dog can help get you around the golf course from one hole to another. So although they're not actually physically playing golf, but they're getting on the course and on and off the green and around all the holes. That's really all I have. I've actually done something I've never done before, which is actually finished a bit early. Those are my two cents.

Theresa:  Great. Thank you so much Jason. Like I said, we'll open up to questions after we've heard from all three of our fabulous panelists. So Jack, you're up.

Jack:  Okay. My name is Jack Heim. I manage the high performance computers for the math department at the University of Wisconsin. I'm on my third dog, current dog's name is Scout. I just got him last September from GDB. He's two, a yellow lab. 

My activities are running, hiking, rock climbing, and a few other things. I have done one triathlon. I won a silver medal in the Badger State Games. It's like a prep -- I think every state has a Olympic like competition, and that's the Badger State Games. I won a silver medal in the 800 meter free style swimming. I've also been in a lot of 10K races. I pretty much do that -- just three or four a year probably. 

I got into all these activities starting when I went blind around 22. It was a gradual thing, but I made up my mind to say yes to everything. So when somebody says, "Do you want to try this?" I'll say, "Yes." "You want to try this?" "Yes." "Do you want to try this?" "Yes." I always say yes. And as a result, I've eaten a lot of weird stuff, drank a lot of weird stuff, but also had a lot of fun.

[Inaudible 00:12:46]

Yeah. I got into scuba and sailing at one time, but I just decided that those events aren't for me because -- well, scuba for instance, you already can't see, and then you can't hear anything either. And I just thought it wasn't as much fun as the things that I have chosen to do. Probably the thing that I'm into most, although -- like I go running several times every week -- but I'm really into rock climbing. I do that with a group called Adaptive Adventures. They're out of Colorado Springs, Colorado. They have adaptive rock climbing clinics indoors in a lot of cities around the country. I'm lucky enough to have one in Madison where I live, so once a month, I go to an adaptive rock climbing clinic indoors. 

A couple of times a year, they have outdoor rock climbing trips, and these are usually three or four days at a state park, so it's a combination of camping, hiking and rock climbing. Now when I'm going rock climbing with Adaptive Adventures, I take my dog, and like Jason said, you use the dog to get you around while you're hiking and camping. The dog -- well, I have a rock climbing harness for my dog, Scout, but it's only as a safety precaution. So a lot of times the trails up to the cliff where you do the actual climbing can get pretty rough. There's some pretty harsh climbing to do there, and so Adaptive Adventures likes to have a harness so that they can put the dog, rope the dog in like a regular climber just to make sure he doesn't fall. But the dog's feet almost never leave the ground. So he's not actually doing any climbing in harness. 

I'll explain a little bit kind of climbing that Adaptive Adventures does. Like I said, they'll take you to a state park. There's Devil's Lake in Wisconsin and Mississippi Palisades in Illinois are the two that I've been to. There they'll have usually limestone cliffs somewhere between 30 to 70 feet high. An experienced climber puts the ropes up first, so they're thoroughly, thoroughly anchored at the top. Then the disabled climbers are roped in, so you can't fall. It would take a incredible series of mistakes for something to happen. So you're roped in the whole time. It's really, really safe. 

The majority of climbers are missing a limb. There are a handful of blind climbers, but as far as I know, I’m the only one who brings their dog along. I'm the only dog handler that I know of who also does rock climbing. 

As I mentioned, I do run a couple of times, two or three times a week, and mostly I do that with friends. My friends are all in a group called the Hash House Harriers. It's a very informal group. You're not going to find any member dues or organization like that. It was started by some British runners in Indonesia back in the '50s and gradually spread around the world. It's just a group for people who like to get together and run. In fact, what they call themselves is a drinking group with a running problem [laughter]. 

What you do is friends gather together, and then often you go run maybe a half an hour, stop at a bar, have a drink, run another half an hour, stop and have a drink. What we do -- once a week I have -- they start running from my house. We run a half an hour, three miles or so, three and a half, and then we get back and sit around my house and drink my beer. So you can probably -- anybody who's interested in getting into running could probably find a Hash House Harriers group in their local community. You can connect up with those people, and they'll take you running all right, especially if you're willing to supply the beer at the end of the run. 

When I run, I do usually take my dog along, not in harness, just on a leash, heeled in. He really loves it. In fact, the first time that I put him on tie down when my running buddies came over, he realized he wasn't going to get to come along on the run with us, and he literally cried as if he was in pain. My wife thought that I had hurt him somehow. That's how upset he was that he wasn't going to get to come running with us. He loves running. He doesn't have to work very hard to keep up with me. I probably do, when I'm outdoors, maybe six, seven miles an hour tops, and so he can just trot alongside. Half an hour of that kind of activity, forty minutes of something like that isn't -- it's not difficult for him at all to keep up with that. 

Of course, I got him in September. We haven't had any hot weather yet, and I'm thinking the cutoff point to leave him home will probably be about 75 degrees Fahrenheit. But that hasn't come up yet. I guess that's about it. That's all I have.

Theresa:  Excellent. Thank you. Thanks so much. You guys make me feel super lazy. All right. Janice, we're going to move on to you, and I'd love to hear about all of your recreational activities and especially archery.

Janice:  Okay. Well, thank you so much for inviting me to this group this evening. I appreciate that, and I love the opportunity to talk about archery. My guide is Vargo, and he's a yellow lab. I've had him, it'll be two years in July. He's my fourth dog from Guide Dogs. 

I do different activities. I have done -- like I think it was Jack or Jason said -- you try just about everything. Mostly, I'm willing to try just about everything. I won't sky dive or bungee jump. Those don't appeal to me. And scuba diving doesn't either appeal to me because of that reason -- the whole point to me to scuba diving is to be able to see the beautiful things down there, and if you can't see them or feel them or hear them, I think I would be very claustrophobic. 

Anyway, I learned -- I've been legally blind all my life, totally blind probably for the last 15 years. My dad taught me how to water ski when I was eight years old. So I've done that. I've done -- my husband when we met had a love for snow skiing, and so he became a guide, a sighted guide for snow skiing for blind people and learned how to do that, and then he taught me how to snow ski. But when I fell and broke arm snow skiing, I decided that archery was more important than snow skiing. So that's gone on the back burner. 

Also we have a tandem bike, which is a lot of fun. And we do have a little cart that we bought when we bought the tandem that you would put a child in. Courtney, my husband, took the seat out and put just cushions, and so we can pull my guide dog with us in that little cart. That works out really nicely, and it does give you a little bit more of a workout because you're pulling 70 pounds behind you that you didn't have. Unfortunately, tandem has taken a backseat to a Harley now, and that's what my husband prefers. Unless we get a sidecar, Vargo can't go with us on the Harley, unfortunately. 

Archery -- I will get to archery -- is my real love and my husband. I got into archery because Courtney was doing it. He was shooting. He joined a local club in Sacramento, and they were having a lot of fun with it, and I was sitting -- I'd go with him to practices, and then he started to compete in California competitions. And so I would accompany him to those, and I would sit on the sidelines, and I'd do my crocheting and I'd do my homework when I was working on my Bachelor's degree. That fine, but then I thought I'd really like to see what does it feel like to shoot a bow and shoot that arrow, hear it hit the target. What is that all about? What does it feel like? 

I started doing some internet searches. This was back in 2003, and I started doing some internet searches to see who -- is there anyone out there who's blind that shoots archery and what technique do they use to shoot a bow for aiming purposes? And the only thing at that time that I could find was British Blind Sports had an archery program. I wrote to them. I emailed them and said, "How do you do it? What's the technique you use?" And they sent pictures and explained how it works. So my husband built the set up for me, and I started shooting with a local archery club that he was in. 

This technique is called tactile archery, or I've seen it lately called touch sighting or tactile sighting. It's very simple. It's not high tech, but it is the technique that is sanctioned by World Archery, which is the international governing body that oversees archery for able-body and Paralympic sport. It's basically a foot locator, which is a bar or a piece of aluminum that goes -- we're talking about target archery where the targets are -- you shoot from a fixed shooting line, and the targets are out in a field, an open field, a range, they call it. So the foot marker is placed across the shooting line because everybody straddles the shooting line. So now I have this foot locator, so that I know where to stand and that I'm standing in the same spot every time I go to shoot. A sighted person can see where they're feet are placed on that shooting line. I can't look down and see where my feet are, so this foot locator helps me to locate the proper place everything I go back to the shooting line.

Then there's a tripod that is attached to that foot locator, and it is on the target side of the foot locator, so I shoot right-handed so my tripod is directly to my left. So you straddle the shooting line, and you are facing down the shooting line. The targets are to your left. So on top of that tripod is a sight. Now I use the same sight that a sighted person uses that they attach to their bow and they look through, but mine goes on the tripod and when I lift my bow and drawn back the string, the hand that is holding on to the bow I use that to touch the sight that's on top of my tripod. Now I know I'm aiming towards the targets and at the right height. So everything else is like everybody else has to shoot. 

When you shoot a bow, just like when you play golf or tennis, you have to perform that shot consistently, using the good form, and do it consistently every time in order for the arrows to go where you want them to go. Like anybody else, that's the trick is getting that good form. Sighting I consider to be maybe five percent of your shot. It's very important obviously to aim, but aiming is there. It's performing the shot properly and really learning how to shoot the bow. And the technique for shooting the bow isn't any different than the technique for a sighted person. The only real difference is how we sight, and we sight by touch instead of with our eyes. 

My scores are not as high as sighted archers because when you're blind, when you can't see, there's the typical things that come into play with that. One of the biggest things is body sway. A sighted person has body sway, but when they're at full draw and looking through their sight and at the target, they can see if they start to move, and they can fix it. We can't see it. We have to feel it, and the movement is very minor, very minimal, and that minimal movement that we make is going to send your arrows off the target. So that's one of the difficulties.

We don't use audio. Some people think -- and there are some camps that use audio sound for aiming at. But that's not the sanctioned, the approved technique for when you want to get into international competition. The big problem with audio would be when does technology fail you most commonly, most often? It's when you need it the most. So I wouldn’t want to rely on anything like that, electronic, to help me aim mostly for that reason. 

Let's see. Archery is a great sport a couple different reasons. Number one, it's a sport that, as a blind person or as a person who knows a blind person, is not a sport that you would automatically assume that a blind person could do. So the fact that you can do it makes you feel really good and really opens up your mind to other possibilities. So it's a great sport for rehabilitation reasons and for kids, for anybody who's -- it's a great sport for anybody. All ages do it; all abilities can do it. It can be adapted for a lot of different disabilities. 

It's something that, if you bring it to somebody -- we've done clinics for visually impaired. We've worked with Foundation for the Junior Blind and done clinics with them. Here's a sport where you think, "How would I ever be able to do archery?" And then they can. Then they think, "Wow, I wonder what else I've though in my life I couldn’t do? And maybe I was wrong." That's what I really love about the sport. 

The other thing is is this technique, simple, low tech aiming, once your equipment is set on the line and lined up with the target, you are very independent. So now, I can adjust -- I can make my own adjustments based on where my arrows are hitting on the target. I do need somebody to call my arrows for me, where they're landing on the target, or I tie a rope from my tripod down to the target, and I can walk down there and feel where my arrows are landing and pull my own arrows. I can be independent. Somebody doesn't have to walk me during practice back and forth. I can make my own adjustments to my equipment as far aiming goes. 

So you can own that shot. You shoot a bad shot, you own it. It's not because the person telling you where you arrows are landing does something and so you can blame them or they can blame themselves. When you shoot a good shot, you can own that too and say, "Hey, I did that. I shot a good shot." 

Sometimes my spotters -- I've had spotters before that, "Oh, I'm sorry. Oh, I'll do better next time." It's like, "You know what? It's not about you. It's okay. You're just calling the arrows. It's me. I have to fix this, but there's nothing that you are causing me to do bad or good." So I really like that about the sport and the inclusiveness of it. Archers are really great people, and like I say, all abilities do it. 

When I started shooting with the club, I had no idea that I was -- how far it would take me because I just wanted to see what it was like. Then I asked, when my husband was competing in California events, I asked if I could compete even though there was no category for me, and they said yes, I could compete as a guest. Then it was six months later, and they voted to make it a category, visually impaired, for the State of California. So then I had a category.

The we decided we wanted to shoot the U.S. Nationals, and they'd never had a blind archer before, and I called them and said, "Would you let me shoot in your tournament?" And they said yes. I was the first blind archer every to shoot at U.S. Nationals. It just kind of fell into place, and then I was asked by the Paralympic coach if I wanted to compete at the World Championships in 2007 because it was the first time they were going to have visually impaired archery there. I never would have thought that I would have been shooting at World Championships after three years of shooting archery.

It was a wonderful experience, and I wound up winning the silver meal that time and that was just not even -- I had no idea that that was going to be a possibility. So I've been to two World Championships since, in Czech Republish and then in Germany four years ago. And I won the gold medal in Germany for years ago. Now this June, I'm going back to the Netherlands is in June, the World Championships for Paralympic. I'm really looking forward. 

Until last year, I had the outdoor record, but the Italian beat my record last year at European Nationals. So we were chatting on Messenger, and I told him that that was my record that he beat and that I want it back, so we have friendly little competition going there. I have the indoor record right now, which I set last year in Andorra what they had an international tournament just for visually impaired. 

So the constraints that you might have -- and tell me, Theresa, if I'm going too long -- equipment. You need the same equipment that anyone else getting into archery would need, the bow, the arrows, the little accessories. Once you've purchased those, it's kind of like with golf. Once you've got your golf clubs, you've got them, so it's not like you have to buy new ones every year. Arrows you do if you lose them or break them. But once you've got your basic equipment, you're pretty good. 

The sighting equipment is built. There is no company that makes the tactile sight. Everybody makes their own. Somebody makes it for them. My husband has built them, my set up, which he feels -- he really likes my set up because we've really worked hard in the last 15 years or whatever, to make it portable, durable, and adjustable, which is very important for that equipment. So he builds them in the garage when people ask. He just charges for the materials, the cost.  Otherwise, somebody can look at -- we have a website that can look at how he -- he talks about on the website how to build it, and they could build their own. There really isn't a company where you get them from. So that's what you need. 

Then you need to find an archery club or an archery shop and tell them that you'd like to shoot archery. Of course at first they may say that's not possible. I have a website called SeeNoLimits.org. On my website I talk about how it's done, what the technique is, what the equipment is. There's also email where you can send me an email. If the shop owner/coach/whoever don't understand how it's done, want to learn more how it's done, they can contact me and Courtney. We're more than willing to help people get started. Once a person sees what it entails, they're not afraid of it. Sometimes, they may be a little worried about a blind person shooting. 

The biggest barrier that a blind person has to archery that we've found really is being able to get to the range, and somebody to help you get initially set up. The biggest reason for that, I think, is that sometimes the sighted community see blind people as a burden. Once I commit to this person, now I'm stuck with this person, and I've got to help them out. We try and be as independent -- as blind people -- as independent as we can. No reason that you couldn't get to and from the range, except that's on public transportation carrying your equipment your bow and arrows and your sighting thing -- it's a little cumbersome -- but also I don't know how busses feel about carrying bows and arrows on the bus or on the train or -- so those are barriers for us. Those are things that make it a little more difficult. 

If you had a family member or a friend that was interested in archery, that's the best case scenario. Let's do it together because we've found that if you can get that person that is supporting the blind person, that's the friend of the blind person interested in it -- and most people that we teach it to, that do it for the first time really fall in love with it. We've found very few people that don't like the sport when they get introduced to it. So if you can find somebody who would like to do it with you, that's the perfect scenario, and that's why I've been able to be as successful as I have been because Courtney loves the sport too and also competes. So I'm very lucky that way.

Nationally, internationally, the difficulties are internationally it is a continuing struggle for visually impaired archers to get accepted at that level by World Archery because of our numbers and the problems that we have with our national governing bodies. Number one, they don't support us at all financially, so we have to self-fund unlike the other Paralympic archers who can quality for the national team and then can be funded. Visually impaired archers right now aren't on the national team, so we have to self-fund. That's expensive to get to World Championships. And the other thing is some countries' national governing bodies won't even sallow their visually impaired archers to go to the World Championships because visually impaired archery is not yet on the full Paralympic games level. It's at the World Championships, but we can't go to the full Paralympic games yet because our numbers aren't up, so those national teams won't even allow the visually impaired archer to participate in the World Championships, which is really frustrating. So those are barriers that we're fighting right now at the international level.

Let's see. I've told you about my website, SeeNoLimits.org. That's where you can find out and ask questions about how we do it. Okay, the last thing was the role of my guide in my activity. Okay. We do target archery mostly. We do field archery, which is a little different style, for fun. And target archery, the role of my guide is to be calm and sit with me when I'm not shooting back under the tent and just be calm and be there with me and enjoy the outdoors.  I can put my hand down, and he's a calming influence. So he doesn't have a big role in target archery except being my companion. 

But field archery is where you shoot at targets. You have to hike, so it's like in a forest or a hilly setting, and you follow trails to each target. Then you stop and you shoot that target, and then you move on to the next target. So Courtney carries the bows, and I have my walking stick and I have Vargo. And Vargo guides me on the trails for that kind of archery, and it's really neat and a great experience. He loves getting out in the wilderness, and so that's how he helps me with archery. And I think that's it.

Theresa:  Great. Thank you so much, Janice. I think I'm feeling inspired. It sounds like having some more archers would help the cause a little bit.

Janice:  Very much so.

Theresa:  In a minute here, I'm going to open up the lines for people who have questions. I also just wanted to say that before I opened, I was just going to say recreation is different for everyone. I love that in this panel today we've had different types of recreation. We'd love to hear more about what other people are doing to get out there and do different things. Maybe it's an art, something you do for art, knitting, or ceramics or all kinds of things, but just the way that you do it and how you do it and how your dog plays a role. If anybody's interested in submitting articles to Alumni News on those subjects, I think that we would all love to hear more from everybody who's out there with what they do and what they enjoy and how to get involved. 

With that said, I'm going to open up the line for questions. And if you are not asking a question, it would be great to have your line muted. I'm looking up right now how to mute your personal line is *2 is to mute and *2 is unmute. But I'm going to unmute everybody right now -- the power.

Jason:  Oh, she has the power.

Yvonne:  This is Yvonne. I have a question.

Theresa:  Hello, Yvonne. 

Yvonne:  Hi. My guide dog is Tippy. She's a small black lab. I know none of the wonderful panelists spoke about it today, but I've heard of a number of individuals who like to go on hikes, and they have a special harness where they walk behind their dog so the dog can pick the footing. I was just wondering where do people look and get special harnesses for different events and different activities.

Theresa:  That's a great question, Yvonne, and I can answer that. I was actually just talking to our Vice President of Training Operations. We are in the process right now of testing a hiking harness made by Ruffwear. It's been a little bit delayed, but hopefully we get that going. But they were testing it so that we can -- and we'll have some available. We're just getting the sizings right, so we know how to advise people for sizing because that is absolutely key when you're doing it. So that's going on right now. So within the next couple of months, you should be hearing more from GDB on that, and I would advise you to wait until that information comes out so that you can get the right sizing and be using it safely.  

Yvonne:  Okay. Awesome. That's great news. Thank you.

Theresa:  Sure.

Michelle:  Theresa, this is Michelle. 

Theresa:  Hi, Michelle. What's your question?

Michelle:  Hi. I have Jamie and we just graduated in March. I was wondering -- I have tried a cart. We have a tandem, and we got a dog cart at the same time as when we got the tandem. I've tried it with a couple of my previous dogs, but they never got used to riding in the cart. They loved going in and out of the cart when it didn't have its wheels and it was stationary, but once it started moving, they started whining a lot. So eventually we stopped tormenting the dog and just had the dog stay home while we went biking. 

I was wondering -- I know Jack mentioned that he has a cart for his dog, and I was wondering if there were any particular things that you did with your dog to help your dog get used to that motion of riding --

Jack:  I think that was Jason.

Janice:  No. Janice.

Jason:  I said I was thinking about doing it, but I never quite figured it out.

Theresa: Janice has [crosstalk 00:47:16].

Janice:  Yeah, but didn't Jason say something about his dog being on the side?

Jason:  No, I said I was playing with the idea, but I haven't quite figured it out yet. When I run, I run with my dog, but he's on a leash. Yeah. And to get him used to that kind of thing, I actually -- he came used to it. I asked GDB for a dog that I could take running, and they said sure.

Janice:  My first guide dog, when we would stop -- he was fine when we were going. We would stop at a stop light or -- what would you call it -- crosswalk, and he would sit up, and he would make funny, whiny noises. But he never -- it sounded like he was upset, but I think he was really just really excited because he never refused to go in the cart. When he got out he was wagging his tail. He never refused to get back in it when we were ready to go again. It was just when we would stop and get ready to start again, he'd kind of go [imitates dog sounds]. It was like I think he was just excited, but I'm sure it's not for every dog for sure. I haven't tried Vargo out in it.

Michelle:  My dogs whined while we were moving and eventually I decided that they might not be too happy. It was rather annoying to the people riding with --

Theresa:  I just want to remind folks to, if you're not asking a question, to put your phone on mute. 

[Crosstalk and background conversation 00:49:11] 

Theresa:  Do we have another question out there? I'm going to mute. I'm going to do sort of a mini-mute, so I can mute everybody. If you want to unmute your line, try pressing *8.

Unidentified:  I don't think that worked.

Unidentified: Okay. I think it worked.

Theresa:  If you have a question, try pressing *2 to unmute your line.

DJ:  Hello. This is DJ, and I had a question for the lady who was speaking about archery. I don't plan on doing any international shooting, but years ago I used to shoot. I gave it up when I can't see anymore. My question is number one -- I had three questions. One, quickly, she said what her website was, but I can't remember all that. I was wondering if she could spell the website for me, or if it can go in somewhere into the minutes for this so I can look it up later. That was question one. 

Number two was the equipment that's special for targeting, you said there's nothing professionally out there to order by and basically you're going to need that. I don't have a clue on where -- that's part of the reason I kind of gave it up because I couldn't get my lateral -- laterally shooting. You could get the height with height positioning, but as far as left to right, there's no way without something to target with. So I needed to find out about that, a little more information on that, how to go about getting something like that because without it, there's nothing you could get. 

And my last question was what were the distances that you shot?

Janice:  Okay. Good questionses -- questionses? -- good questions. The website is SeeNoLimits, so it's S-E-E-N-O-L-I-M-I-T-S.org. As far as the equipment, if you were interested, my husband would make it for you, and you can contact me through my website or it's -- and Theresa, I don't know if you'll put this out, but it's jwalsh@seenolimits.org. So you can contact me that way. Where are you located?

DJ:  I'm in California. My dog's Meryl [sp]. I got her at Guide Dogs for the Blind. I live in the Los Angeles area.

Janice:  Okay. That's good that you're in California because we would be able to support you better, even. Even though I'm up close to Sacramento. But still, that's good. If you just contact me through email, we can help you out. And your third question -- oh, I forget what your third question was.

DJ:  The distances that you used when you were shooting, 30, 50, 30, 40, 50?

Janice:  Indoors, we shoot 18 meters, and outdoors visually impaired shoot 30 meters.

DJ:  Okay. I didn't catch your email address ma'am, but is someone keeping minutes that can be looked up on our Guide Dog Alumni site?

Theresa:  Yeah. I can -- let me think. It's Theresa, and I can send -- I was going to post something on the Guide Dogs website, but I can send it to -- what's your name? It's DJ. What's your last name?

DJ:  Dion Junier. I go by DJ. Dog's name's Meryl. 

Theresa:  Meryl?  Okay.

DJ:  She's a yellow lab. 

Theresa: Can you tell me what -- well, I'll look up your email address, and I can send you Janice's.

DJ:  I can call you, Theresa. I can call you. I just didn't want to take up too much time in the conversation.

Theresa:  Okay. Perfect. That would be awesome.

DJ:  Thank you very much for all the information everybody.

Kathy:  Could I ask a question now? Hello?

Theresa:  Sure. Hello. Yes. Go for it.

Kathy:  Hi, Theresa.  It's Kathy from Ohio, and my guide dog's name is Hyatt. My comment is Hyatt goes kayaking with my husband and me. We put the kayak in the back yard, and I put treats in it, and we put a blanket in there. And she just loved it, and she would just sit in it and hang out in it. So when we took it down to the beach -- we live on Lake Eerie -- and we also have the Ashtabula River. So when we took her down there it was just a -- you know, she acted like it was no big deal. As soon as we get paddling, she lays down and goes to sleep. So it's really fun, but it's pretty limited by weather too. And we have a life jacket for her of course. It is fun. It is fun. 

My question is to the gentleman who is going to do Kilimanjaro. I used to run, and I've had a knee replacement so running days are over. So I do some -- I'm just getting back in shape, so I've been doing some walking with friends, and we're training for a half marathon walk. 

Jason:  Oh, cool.

Kathy:  My husband needs a hip replacement, so as soon as he gets that done and is back in shape, we want to do some serious hiking because we have two sons who do a lot of backpacking. They have mentioned to us Kilimanjaro. So I'm curious if you will be journaling your training and if you could somehow stay in touch with us and let us know how your training's going, what you're doing to get in shape, how you've managed the altitudes and all of that. I'd like to follow along if there was a way because I'm probably --

Jason:  - Yes. I can give you another website. 

Kathy:  Okay. We're about -- we at least three years out because I know it will take my husband a while after his hip replacement to get back in shape, and I'm just one year out from my knee. So it's going to take us some time. 

Jason:  I'll give you another website. It's www.teamlimitless.ca, so T-A-M-L-I-M-I-T-L-E-S-S --

Kathy:  I'm sorry. I didn't come prepared. 

Jason: Well, I'll send it out. It's www.teamlimitless.ca, and we're hoping to -- although it's not official, we're hoping to -- we're entering into negotiations to maybe have a documentary done about what we're doing. It's not -- we're still -- it's not official and it may not happen, but we're hoping that someone local will pick up this project. We have someone who we've brought onboard to help us try and get this project together who's in the film industry, the documentary industry, so if that happens that will be part of what we're doing. But one of our team members is a photographer who's partially sighted, and he also runs a drone business. So we're also going to be having him film lots of stuff put on our website. So I'll send it out. It's teamlimitless.ca.

Kathy:  Okay. Great. Thank you.

Jason:  Yes. You're welcome. There's nothing that we're doing that's all that special right now. As we get closer, we're going to try and do more team activities and we're going to find some way to figure out the altitude, maybe go to a higher level or -- I don't know -- Colorado or -- I don't know. We have over a year to do it, so it's a work in progress.

Kathy:  Right. Okay. 

Jason:  Sure. Good luck.

Kathy:  Thank you and to you also.

Jason:  Sure.

Theresa:  Well, guys, I think we have reached our limit, speaking of team limitless. We've reached our limit. 

Jason:  There you go. There are some limits.

Theresa:  Yeah. There are some limits. I really, really want to thank each of our panelists today, Jason, Jack and Janice, for inspiring us to get out and do stuff, whatever it is, and for sharing their stories with us. I also want to thank Amit Ahuja for putting together today's program. I really appreciate you doing that. I want to encourage everyone to remember to sign up for the reunion. It would be fund see everybody in Portland. 

I'm recording this, so this will go up on the GDB website under Resources, and then under Resources, there's a thing that says Resources for Alumni, it will be in there under the Speaker Series section. So if you want to go back to get some of those website whatever, that kind of thing. We're also trying to put together a little resource list with some of these resources that our panelists have put together. So hopefully in the next week or so, we'll have that up on the website as well. Thanks for coming, really appreciate it. Hope you guys all have a good rest of your week. Thank you.

[Crosstalk 00:59:27]

[End of Recording]